modern bike maintenance

General bike chat that does not fit elsewhere
User avatar
DeVlaeminck
Posts: 5301
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 20:34 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby DeVlaeminck » Wed Sep 18, 2019 07:25 am

Process of elimination. Try with different wheels, pedals, saddle etc.

Chances are the shop are not riding the bike up steep hills .
Holbrook Sports FC Women - sign for us

User avatar
darkhairedlord
Posts: 4476
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 13:03 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby darkhairedlord » Wed Sep 18, 2019 08:00 am

have the BB taken out and get the shell measured properly, not with a random set of calipers.
The problem with press fit is the shell is often aluminium, and thin walled to reduce the mass, yet the fit for bearings is typically specified for steel.
Of course, it could be the crank axle, if this is slightly bent or their is too much run-out between the bearing seats on the shaft then it will wobble in the bearings, pumping out any grease and leaving you with the sounds you describe.
Tighten the chainwheel bolts while you are at it.

kingrollo
Posts: 3213
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby kingrollo » Wed Sep 18, 2019 08:14 am

Its not the cleats as I have used these on other bikes - and one shop replicated the creak whilst riding in trainers - its also on its 2nd set of pedals.

Anyway we appeared to have gone ever so slightly off topic - What level of maintenance is required to keep a carbon bike, Disc, through axles , creak free -
Kuota are saying it is my lack of maintenance which is making the bike creak. Basically I clean the bike - and clean and lube the chain - and take my bikes to a shop once or year for a full service - What level of maintenance are other owners doing ?

its my best bike so doesn't go out in the wet ...

keef66
Posts: 13193
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 09:46 am

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby keef66 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 08:37 am

That's pretty much all I do with my carbon bike, although I do the annual service bit myself. That includes cleaning / regreasing and adjusting the Shimano hubs, trickling a bit of oil into the freehub internals, and whipping out the seatpost for a wipe down and fresh carbon paste. Pressfit BB is still fine after 6 years. Pedals get fresh grease occasionally (5 years?)

User avatar
Ben6899
Posts: 7044
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 19:49 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby Ben6899 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 09:32 am

kingrollo wrote:... Its been back to kuota - who inspected\removed the bb but found no problems with it - bikes comes back no creaking for a few weeks - then it returns.
took it to lbs - who removed bb and re seated it with some bonding agents...


What does Kuota's "it's fine" actually mean though? Within their manufacturing tolerances? And are they appropriate for pressfit applications or wide enough to allow more QC passes?

Grease and "bonding agents" applied to the mating surfaces merely hide the symptom and potentially worsen the whole situation.

The creaking in your video is unacceptable.
Ben

Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/143173475@N05/

Slowbike
Posts: 8249
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 09:26 am

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby Slowbike » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:21 am

pedals?

I only say this because my clicking bottom bracket turned out to be a clicking pedal ... easily sorted by swapping the offending pedal with the one off the TT bike - on which I can't hear the pedal clicking due to the wind noise! ;)

but yes - truly horrible noise and something the shop should be able to troubleshoot....

kingrollo
Posts: 3213
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby kingrollo » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:37 am

Slowbike wrote:pedals?

I only say this because my clicking bottom bracket turned out to be a clicking pedal ... easily sorted by swapping the offending pedal with the one off the TT bike - on which I can't hear the pedal clicking due to the wind noise! ;)

but yes - truly horrible noise and something the shop should be able to troubleshoot....


Ive changed the pedals.

User avatar
darkhairedlord
Posts: 4476
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 13:03 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby darkhairedlord » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:52 am

chainset

keef66
Posts: 13193
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 09:46 am

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby keef66 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:01 am

Company net-nanny wouldn't let me view your video so I've just had a quick look / listen on the iPhone. Jesus Christ! It sounds like a tea clipper under full sail.

I cannot believe they think that lacklustre maintenance is in some way to blame for that racket. Something wrong there, and they should be fixing it or giving you a different bike / frame...

Pilot Pete
Posts: 1770
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 15:33 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby Pilot Pete » Wed Sep 18, 2019 19:12 pm

kingrollo wrote:
Pilot Pete wrote:Is it in every gear combo, or only when going uphill in low gears? I ask because I’ve just found my creak was not BB but rear cassette! It was only in the lower gears (which are all riveted together on a carrier) when really pushing going uphill. It was a similar sound but nowhere near as loud as yours. Tightened to spec but this was allowing movement, tightened a bit tighter and problem sorted.

PP


Its only when going up steep hills - typically I am in the lower gears when going uphill !!!! - - How do I tighten the rear cassette - or should I purchase a new cassette ?

its been back to kuota - who inspected\removed the bb but found no problems with it - bikes comes back no creaking for a few weeks - then it returns.
took it to lbs - who removed bb and re seated it with some bonding agents - also said they thought the problem was a loose rear through axle - fine for 1st ride - but now creaking again - through axle seems tight enough

in total 3 different people have looked over the bike (shop purchased from, kuota, lbs) all have inspected the BB - on two occasions the bike has come back temporarily cured (once it came back worse - but shop were adamant it wasn't creaking on test ride)


You need a cassette lock ring tool to fit your cassette (Shimano/ SRAM or Campagnolo as appropriate). Something like this for about a fiver https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Ice-Toolz-Cassette-Lockring-Tool-with-Guide_31839.htm?sku=73012&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwq4fsBRBnEiwANTahcFEyTVIBB0qDA8wgb9wGM2jvHV3QEY_sv6VCKuwUQWUtmRMN0xM0khoC_NkQAvD_BwE and a suitable socket wrench or spanner to fit it. Remove your rear wheel, take out the axle/ quick release, pop the tool into the lock ring on the cassette and tighten it using a big (ideally quite long to get enough leverage) spanner or socket wrench.

Quick test before you do this; put the bike into one of the gears where you get the creak (one of the 4 or so big cogs which are all on the same carrier). Put the front wheel up against a wall to stop the bike moving and then apply pressure on the pedal(s). Push hard, on and off the pedal. Mine made the same click/ creak when I did this. When in the smaller cogs it didn’t make the noise.

As with your bike, BB had been out, cups out, all replaced with appropriate grease/ anti-seize to manufacturers spec all to no avail. Bearings felt completely normal with no discernible wear. Everything was tightened to spec.

Your noise sounds too loud to be cleats or chainring bolts. I would check the cassette for tightness to start with and if that fails, check the freehub and rear wheel bearings.

PP

pamplemoose
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:29 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby pamplemoose » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:51 pm

kingrollo wrote:Anyway we appeared to have gone ever so slightly off topic - What level of maintenance is required to keep a carbon bike, Disc, through axles , creak free -
Kuota are saying it is my lack of maintenance which is making the bike creak. Basically I clean the bike - and clean and lube the chain - and take my bikes to a shop once or year for a full service - What level of maintenance are other owners doing ?


That's pretty much a standard level of maintenance as far as I'm concerned. I've never had a creaking bike doing only those things.

User avatar
VinnyMarsden
Posts: 1191
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 22:40 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby VinnyMarsden » Fri Sep 27, 2019 22:17 pm

King,
Are your lbs actually a bike shop?
Surely they can’t expect you to ride that and think they’ve done a good job!!
I would be embarrassed handing it back and I only service my own bike!!

User avatar
Step83
Posts: 3275
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 17:23 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby Step83 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 07:09 am

Pilot Pete wrote:
kingrollo wrote:
Pilot Pete wrote:Is it in every gear combo, or only when going uphill in low gears? I ask because I’ve just found my creak was not BB but rear cassette! It was only in the lower gears (which are all riveted together on a carrier) when really pushing going uphill. It was a similar sound but nowhere near as loud as yours. Tightened to spec but this was allowing movement, tightened a bit tighter and problem sorted.

PP


Its only when going up steep hills - typically I am in the lower gears when going uphill !!!! - - How do I tighten the rear cassette - or should I purchase a new cassette ?

its been back to kuota - who inspected\removed the bb but found no problems with it - bikes comes back no creaking for a few weeks - then it returns.
took it to lbs - who removed bb and re seated it with some bonding agents - also said they thought the problem was a loose rear through axle - fine for 1st ride - but now creaking again - through axle seems tight enough

in total 3 different people have looked over the bike (shop purchased from, kuota, lbs) all have inspected the BB - on two occasions the bike has come back temporarily cured (once it came back worse - but shop were adamant it wasn't creaking on test ride)


You need a cassette lock ring tool to fit your cassette (Shimano/ SRAM or Campagnolo as appropriate). Something like this for about a fiver https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Ice-Toolz-Cassette-Lockring-Tool-with-Guide_31839.htm?sku=73012&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjwq4fsBRBnEiwANTahcFEyTVIBB0qDA8wgb9wGM2jvHV3QEY_sv6VCKuwUQWUtmRMN0xM0khoC_NkQAvD_BwE and a suitable socket wrench or spanner to fit it. Remove your rear wheel, take out the axle/ quick release, pop the tool into the lock ring on the cassette and tighten it using a big (ideally quite long to get enough leverage) spanner or socket wrench.

Quick test before you do this; put the bike into one of the gears where you get the creak (one of the 4 or so big cogs which are all on the same carrier). Put the front wheel up against a wall to stop the bike moving and then apply pressure on the pedal(s). Push hard, on and off the pedal. Mine made the same click/ creak when I did this. When in the smaller cogs it didn’t make the noise.

As with your bike, BB had been out, cups out, all replaced with appropriate grease/ anti-seize to manufacturers spec all to no avail. Bearings felt completely normal with no discernible wear. Everything was tightened to spec.

Your noise sounds too loud to be cleats or chainring bolts. I would check the cassette for tightness to start with and if that fails, check the freehub and rear wheel bearings.

PP


With PP on this one, had a very similar noise on mine. What your hearing is the cassette moving under force an the sound being transmitted through the frameset and wheels, you may find the noise is worse in the bigger cogs due to them being larger so more torque plus some are bonded rather than being single cogs.

Either way get that tool an some leverage, if you have a torque wrench then 40nm is the number your looking for which is usually on them.

User avatar
Manglier
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:30 am

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby Manglier » Sat Sep 28, 2019 13:12 pm

It could be worthwhile stripping out the bb and having the bb shell accurately measured by a metrology company rather than a bike shop. That way you can find out whether the bb shell correct. Then you can think about chasing the manufacturer if there is a problem.
To understand the problems that can occur this Hambini vid is a good watch (I'm a big fan).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWDztue ... dex=2&t=0s

User avatar
Keith57
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 07:49 am
Contact:

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby Keith57 » Sat Sep 28, 2019 14:42 pm

Pilot Pete wrote: I ask because I’ve just found my creak was not BB but rear cassette!
PP


Yes, I had this exact same issue years ago. Drove me mad for a while! Was quite a revelation when the creak moved to one of the other bikes when I swapped over the rear wheel :roll: All it needed was a service of the free hub. I do this regularly myself now, about twice a year on all 3 bikes.
http://www.fachwen.org
https://www.strava.com/athletes/303457

Please note: I’ll no longer engage deeply with anonymous forum users :D

Kajjal
Posts: 3391
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 16:37 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby Kajjal » Sat Sep 28, 2019 20:40 pm

I had a creaking especially up steep hills in low gears, sounded like the bottom bracket but ended up being the headset bearings needed replacing. Also had it from a rear wheel that was dying, loose saddle, loose chainring bolts etc. It can be frustrating to work at what it is sometimes, it can be something is lose, worn or just needs lubing / greasing.

Jacksyee
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 04:53 am

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby Jacksyee » Sun Sep 29, 2019 07:52 am

I had a creak I could not figure out and it turned out to be a crack in a crank

Assume you have checked that

User avatar
darkhairedlord
Posts: 4476
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 13:03 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby darkhairedlord » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:28 pm

I had a creaky bottom bracket, turned out to be last nights curry.

thecycleclinic
Posts: 6785
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 23:53 pm
Contact:

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby thecycleclinic » Sun Sep 29, 2019 21:17 pm

Generally press fit bb uses they are the thread fit type should not be remo ed and replaced. Removal can damage the bearings. Replace if removed.

Creaks are difficult to track down. If you believe it is the BB then replace with thread fit BB.

It's not likely to be a manufacturing defect and shops cant easily trace tbe source either. To do it proprh could take hours and that time should be paid for hense with creaks shops tend to not want to spend too much time. They simply cant charge for the time it would actually take.
http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.

User avatar
darkhairedlord
Posts: 4476
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 13:03 pm

Re: modern bike maintenance

Postby darkhairedlord » Mon Sep 30, 2019 07:10 am

Summary:
Could be housing out of tolerance.
Could be crank axle out.
Could be cassette or free hub.
Could be headset.


Return to “Road General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests