Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

General bike chat that does not fit elsewhere
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bompington
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby bompington » Tue Sep 10, 2019 04:21 am

Pilot Pete wrote:I agree with Andy - try dealing direct with the other party’s insurers directly first. I did this a year or so back and as long as the driver doesn’t dispute liability then I found it very straightforward. I had a foreign cycling trip planned within the month and made them aware of all this, sent a letter/quote from the dealer with RRP prices for EVERY damaged part of my bike and kit. All in all this came to over £7k, which included helmet, sunglasses (broken arm), Sidi shoes which were scuffed up, ripped clothing, and loads of bike bits including tyres which had sidewall damage, bars and saddle which were scuffed, bar tape and end plugs, rear di2 derailleur and hanger which was smashed off and of course frame and forks.

With a bit of pushing they paid out within 3 weeks and I had everything sorted for my trip. Old lady’s insurer was Ageas.

PP

When I was knocked off a few years back, the driver (and his insurers) admitted liability right away,
But they still fought for every penny, continually making derisory offers and making me jump through hoops (medicals, massive time wasting with their telephone physios, etc) until I called in the ambulance chasers, who promptly got their payout offer tripled.
I would concur with those on this thread who have advised getting a lawyer.

AndyH01
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby AndyH01 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 09:03 am

.[/quote]

I have no idea what fees Leigh Day got for handling my claim but there was no deduction from my award.
From accident to settlement was 9 months.
What is fair compensation for spending 5 hours in A&E instead of being back home with your family, or not being able to get to sleep because of your bruising/gravel rash,or not being able to ride your bike for weeks/months. On your own you have no idea of what to claim. Insurance companies have no obligation to be fair but they are obliged to limit their losses.[/quote]

Depends when your claims was, following the Woolf Reforms in 1998, Access to Justice Act 1999 - removing legal aid from personal injury cases and instead run under Conditional Fee Agreements aka No win, No fee and Jackson reforms Jan 2010, some of which came into force on 01/04/2013;

"Successful claimants could no longer recover CFA success fees and ATE insurance premiums from defendants;
The original cap on success fees at 25% of damages, lifted in 1999, was restored for personal injury cases;
To soften the blow for claimants, the Jackson reforms introduced qualified one-way costs shifting (QOCS), removing the need for personal injury claimants to pay defendant’s legal costs where claims were unsuccessful;"

https://www.litigationfutures.com/featu ... lete-guide

Unfortunately not first nor last claim the UK has some of ther most robust legal system in the world and is often copied. The Ogden tables have developed over the time and sets legal precedent on injury costs, although morbid, it is cheaper to outright kill a person then to cause life changing injuries, not that I'm implying anything by this;

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -and-death

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... dition.pdf

Actually under the RTA particularly part V1 sets out the Insurers liability in respect to third parties and is designed to ensure innocent third party victims are compensated and for third party bodily injury is unlimited.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/contents

As such to transact insurance in UK amongst other things, you have be registered and regulated by the FCA, who in turn have the Financial Ombudsman, who can independently review the claim decision and quantum which although not legally binding on the third party, if they did accept would be binding on the insurer.

Nothing stopping OP seeking further legal advice once offer on table if they felt they wern't getting anywhere directly.

AndyH01
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby AndyH01 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 09:12 am

PP[/quote]
When I was knocked off a few years back, the driver (and his insurers) admitted liability right away,
But they still fought for every penny, continually making derisory offers and making me jump through hoops (medicals, massive time wasting with their telephone physios, etc) until I called in the ambulance chasers, who promptly got their payout offer tripled.
I would concur with those on this thread who have advised getting a lawyer.[/quote]


Your solicitors would've still have required the medical reports to ascertain extent of injuries etc and sounds as though the insurer was seeking to provide you with medical care rather than a cash settlement.
Just like not all insurers'claim management co are equal nor are solicitors... It's an extra link in the chain....
It's easier to engage with solicitor at a later stage if felt required then terminating a contract with them once involved....

All I'm saying rather than trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer, try going direct in the first instance and see how it goes.

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bompington
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby bompington » Tue Sep 10, 2019 09:57 am

AndyH01 wrote:All I'm saying rather than trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer, try going direct in the first instance and see how it goes.

I did.
It was when they forced me to go through a second medical, with a doctor nominated by them who clearly had an agenda to downplay my injuries - and belittled them to my face - which resulted in them reducing their original offer, which was alreaady less than half of the recommended guidelines.
That was when I called in the lawyers, who promptly wrangled 3 times the sum from them (and organised some proper rather than going-through-the-motions treatment, too).

Your mileage clearly varied, but that was my experience: and others seem to agree.

Pilot Pete
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby Pilot Pete » Tue Sep 10, 2019 23:45 pm

Difference for me was that I wasn’t interested in making a claim for personal injury, I just wanted my bike sorted. My knee was skinned and that was about it. I held this back until they made a comment about checking the RRP for all the parts I was claiming and saying that they had seen some ‘cheaper on the internet’. I said that’s all well and good but RRP is the only price that I can guarantee finding when I come to buy and if they settled I wouldn’t make a claim for personal injury.

It is not surprising that they want a medical done to ascertain extent of injury and possible future related issues. Obviously they will try to play these down. I agree that in such circumstances a lawyer may be preferable.

PP

dimmockg
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby dimmockg » Wed Sep 11, 2019 08:24 am

Thanks again for all the replies and responses

Still in a state of 'resting up' due to various pains, bruising and skin damage etc

The AA haven't done what they said they would yet (not returned calls). When they said they would

So I think it's time to instruct

dimmockg
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby dimmockg » Fri Sep 13, 2019 21:09 pm

Update on this....

I've so far held off instructing a Solicitor as the AA so far have been really good (after one chase of the initial call) I've got an initial offer for injuries which is (in my option) pretty good.

The AA are also happy to cover Helmet, Clothes, a split tire which is all fine

They're dragging their heels on the bike and upgraded wheels (novatec jet fly) and have asked for an. Official report on the structure of the bike and whether it is safe to ride, can be repaired or needs to be written off. Having had a closer look at the bike this evening before taking somewhere tomorrow the front wheel is completely goosed, has a fairly deep press/dent, pushing one side of the rim in by about 3 or 4 mm for a length of about 3 inches - so I'm happy with that in the sense they will be written off

What I'm still concerned about is the frame, when having a good look earlier there is a straight line of what looks like pit marks/dots about an inch long on the down tube at the top just at the base of the head tube - this is where the impact was - could this be an underlying crack or stress reaction within the frame?

A few things I'll point out/check tomorrow when I take it in....

1) the line of little pit marks and explain this is approx place of impact
2) if the frame is deemed OK, do I still get the remainder of the 10 year Giant warranty
3) if deemed OK, who is liable if the frame were to simply 'fail' in the future as I doubt any guarantees or warranty will be given by the checker?

Cheers
Last edited by dimmockg on Fri Sep 13, 2019 21:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.


PhotoNic69
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby PhotoNic69 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 21:42 pm

Nothing stopping you from "polishing in" a few extra stress fractures with a large hammer if you get my drift :wink:

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monkimark
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby monkimark » Sat Sep 14, 2019 09:06 am

If you don't still have the remainder of the 10 year warranty then you're not being put back to where you were before the crash. I doubt the bike shop would be willing to confirm that just by looking at the outside so I would say new bike time.
For a bike that can probably be bought for £1200 or so, the cost of a full investigation isn't going to be worth it I wouldn't think.

dimmockg
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby dimmockg » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:41 am

Bike shop took a good look at the wheel, the fork damage and the rub/scuff on the frame, felt the little pitt marks on the downtube and said 'I think that's goosed mate'

Explained a little more in detail and the why's etc and said there is no way he'd be endorsing anybody getting back on it.

Got the written report summary so will pop that over to the AA.

To the point above, exactly what he said - could be further examined at a cost comparable to buying a new bike - so written off it is

AndyH01
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby AndyH01 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 20:54 pm

Maybe worth having a chat with AA explain what lbs has confirmed it's a write off as cost are comparable and temind them of safety aspect that they wouldn't want be liable if failed on descent etc givee them an idea 9f replacement if not already done so including any upgraded parts. I'm sure the injury alone is more than bike cost, just remind them if needed no socilisitor who may challenge them on injury award but provided replace bike you'd be happy to settle and then if needed send the bike shop report.

AndyH01
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby AndyH01 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 21:13 pm

Maybe worth having a chat with AA befor sending report, explain what lbs has confirmed it's a write off and remind them of safety aspect that they wouldn't want be liable if failed on descent etc you wouldn't feel safe riding it so be worse off as you'll replace. give them an idea of replacement if not already done so , including any upgraded parts.. I'm sure the injury costs alone is more than bike cost, just remind them if needed you've been reasonable and be shame to involve socilisitor now, who may challenge them on injury award but provided replace bike or monetary value of bike you'd be happy to settle and then if needed send the bike shop report.

AndyH01
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby AndyH01 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 21:15 pm

PhotoNic69 wrote:Nothing stopping you from "polishing in" a few extra stress fractures with a large hammer if you get my drift :wink:


Whilst maybe tongue in cheek it's this kind of attitude causes problems for genuine possess and why every insurance policy is at least £50 more expensive than it needs to be.

dimmockg
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby dimmockg » Sun Sep 15, 2019 09:23 am

@AndyH01

That's sound advice - thanks

Bike report essentially states the bike is beyond any form of economical repair and the inspector has clearly stated it shouldn't be ridden so I think that aspect is all covered off.

The AA already have the original receipt and cost of the bike, as well as links which I've sent for the latest model which is £1600 and a link to the 2019 model at a cheaper cost (to the AA) of £1275 - when sending the cheaper price as 2019 model would be fine I did point out this would be subject to stock levels - ie, act quickly and this becomes a few hundred quid cheaper for you. I've even been more reasonable in assuming the bike being written off that parts recently replaced like chain, cassette, a tire could be dropped off as the new bike would naturally come with those.

I'll put everything together in a nicely worded email and as suggest above state it would be nice to be back in the same position to avoid using solicitors - I'm 'happy' with the injury offer and is more than the replacement cost of the bike and upgraded wheels

Thanks

AndyH01
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby AndyH01 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:43 am

Maybe keep quiet for now about being able to salvage some 9f the components, if it's a full build bike that you're presenting. Technically AA could take ownership of your damaged bike once replaced, however, in practice they may not as not geared up to salvage bike as they are cars.
Technically they also look to negotiate a bit on replacement value on basis of betterment, again though, it's be difficult for them to gauge value of a 2 year old bike compared to cars...or cost of buying frame and a professional stripping down old bike then finding something else so more new parts and fitting to new one to.just buying new bike at X minus y (argument sake say 20% just random made up figure) and letting you dispose of the old.
They may just look to settle at your lower replacement cost and close the claim off. A couple hundred quid is small change to them.
There is a line between exaggeration and ligitimate negotiation.

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darkhairedlord
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby darkhairedlord » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:48 am

They might clock the road pedals sans reflectors and decide bike legal for road use...

Pilot Pete
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby Pilot Pete » Sun Sep 15, 2019 15:14 pm

darkhairedlord wrote:They might clock the road pedals sans reflectors and decide bike legal for road use...


Eh? Legal or illegal? :?:

PP

dimmockg
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby dimmockg » Sun Sep 15, 2019 15:59 pm

@AndyH01

I've pretty much done as above, explained what the LBS have said/advised and then summarised the list of bits being claimed for then totalled this with the injury offer and have ended with an 'if we can mutually agree on this figure and avoid getting solicitors involved that would probably be best for both sides'

I've even done some legwork in getting a replacement bike and supply is extremely limited but have found one for £1200 so have quoted that figure as the bike value

Like you say, overall this is small change to the AA and if they decline my negotiation then I'll simply confirm the solicitor instruction which will end up costing more in the long run, so for me this is a bit of a no brainer for a quick settle and close in my opinion. I guess it just depends on whether the handler feels stubborn or not, we shall see

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darkhairedlord
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Re: Knocked off bike this morning, what do I do regarding carbon frame

Postby darkhairedlord » Sun Sep 15, 2019 17:27 pm

Pilot Pete wrote:
darkhairedlord wrote:They might clock the road pedals sans reflectors and decide bike legal for road use...


Eh? Legal or illegal? :?:

PP

Not legal, typ0!


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